Q1 Tom Middlehurst: Could the Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh
Language bring forward proposals for the implementation of the
recommendations in the Wallace report which require decision by the National
Assembly for Wales? (OAQ8249)
The Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language (Jenny Randerson):
The four recommendations that require Assembly attention are already in
hand. Edwina Hart is conducting a review of remuneration of Assembly
sponsored public body Chairs and members, which includes the Arts Council of
Wales in its remit. I have already agreed that the Assembly will fund the
cost of restructuring the ACW. There are ongoing internal discussions on the
Wallace report's suggestion that the Arts Council should be brought within
the Better Government programme of events and seminars. We have received 76
applications for the five vacancies on the Arts Council and we expect to
conduct interviews early in the new year.
Tom Middlehurst: Do you agree that any proposals should include the issue of
the constitution of the Arts Council and its membership? You have said that
you will consider the issue of remuneration of the Chair. That is an
important issue raised by the Wallace report. Is there not also a need to
clearly define the role and function of the Chair and his or her
relationship with the chief executive?
Jenny Randerson: I agree that those issues need to be considered. They are
being considered as part of the action plan that the Arts Council is
producing and as part of the taskforce that I have set up to deal with the
restructuring of the Arts Council.
Jonathan Morgan: Do you agree that, if it emerges that the proposed
regionalisation of the Arts Council leads to a permanent increase in the
council's administration costs, that would be unacceptable in view of the
many practitioners in the artistic communities in Wales, and that you should
rethink the regionalisation project in its entirety? It is important to get
cash to arts practitioners and not spend money on bureaucracy and
administration costs.
Jenny Randerson: I agree that it is important that we get as much money as
possible to arts practitioners. The overall result of this restructuring and
reorganisation should be that the administration is much more efficient,
focused and more effective than it has been in the past. I will consider any
restructuring proposals with a critical eye and with those issues in mind.
Rhodri Glyn Thomas: In addition to the Wallace report, the Minister will be
aware of the PriceWaterhouse Coopers report on the Arts Council of Wales's
strategy on theatre for young people. That report is critical of the custom
of distributing budgets without assessing the objectives that are intended
to be achieved through them. The report also draws attention to a number of
other organisational deficiencies. Does the Minister agree that that report
and the Wallace report show that fundamental changes need to be made in the
way in which the Arts Council operates? Does she also believe that the
council has the will to achieve those changes? Will she ensure that the
proposed taskforce will be independent and dynamic enough to ensure that
those changes are implemented?
Jenny Randerson: There is unanimity in the Committee, and I agree with those
Members who have voiced their opinions that we need a fundamental review and
change. The Arts Council's response so far has been encouraging. However, a
response is only the first step to implementing that change. I agree that we
need to have an ongoing review. The taskforce is fully independent. You will
know that the Arts Council has advertised for an independent adviser. That
post will be filled probably within the next few days. In addition, I have
appointed Elan Closs Stephens as an outside thinker for the taskforce.
Review of the Arts Council of Wales
Q3 Jonathan Morgan: When was the last quinquennial review of the Arts
Council of Wales completed and when will the next review be completed?
(OAQ8309)
Jenny Randerson: The council has not had such a review since its
establishment in 1994. The review was originally scheduled for this year,
but has been postponed to enable the council to concentrate on following the
recommendations of the Wallace report. I expect the review to start in April
2002, and to take around six months.
Jonathan Morgan: Is it not unacceptable that of all the Assembly sponsored
public bodies in Wales, the Arts Council of Wales is the only one that has
avoided a thoroughgoing review? In the forthcoming review, when we finally
get to it, will you ask the review panel to examine the royal charter of the
Arts Council of Wales and whether or not it is the appropriate legal basis
for this organisation in this post-devolution era?
Jenny Randerson: I cannot do anything about or comment on the lack of a
review in the past, but the Arts Council is under constant review at
present. The Wallace report, which was ordered and accepted by my
predecessor, Tom Middlehurst, addressed the finance and management side in
detail. The PriceWaterhouse Coopers review and the Post-16 Education and
Training Committee's review have been undertaken. The Arts Council is under
greater scrutiny than any other Assembly sponsored public body. The next
review, which will take place in 2002, will be meaningful because by then it
will be operating in its new format. With reference to your comments on the
royal charter, I have investigated this and I know your feelings on this
matter: no body has ever had its royal charter revoked. There has never been
a request to revoke a body's royal charter. I gather that the Privy Council
would be extremely concerned if there were such a request. [Interruption.] I
knew that that would raise comments.
The Presiding Officer: Order. Can the Privy Councillors present please
contain themselves?
Jenny Randerson: It would be a controversial and lengthy process. However,
there have been many cases where royal charters have been amended. There is
no reason why the royal charter cannot be amended to suit our purposes.
There is no evidence that the royal charter has caused the Arts Council's
problems. In Wales the Sports Council, the National Library and the National
Museums and Galleries of Wales also have royal charters. That does not
affect our control and influence over them.
Cyfansoddiad Cyngor Celfyddydau Cymru
The Constitution of the Arts Council of Wales
Q4 Cynog Dafis: What discussions has Jenny Randerson had with
representatives of the Arts Council of Wales to discuss its constitution?
(OAQ8372)
Jenny Randerson: I have not had any discussions with the Arts Council
regarding its constitution.
The Arts Council was established by royal charter in 1994. I have no
evidence to suggest that royal charter status has ever caused the Assembly
any difficulties in obtaining compliance with policies from any of its
sponsored bodies that were established in such a way. I am sorry if that
repeats what I have just said.
Cynog Dafis: I will move the discussion forward from Jonathan Morgan's
comments and note that some of us would welcome an application by the
Assembly that would cause considerable uproar in the Privy Council, as it is
called; it is appropriately titled because it is private. The point is that
the Arts Council is a different body in essence to the National Library of
Wales and the National Museum because the Arts Council is an agency. It does
the same sort of work in the arts sector as, let us say, the Welsh
Development Agency does in the area of economic development. Its purpose is
artistic development.
Does she accept that the Arts Council is in a different category and that
it would be sensible to bring that council into the same sort of regime as
other Assembly sponsored public bodies?
Jenny Randerson: There is no reason why the Arts Council's royal charter
status should prevent us from controlling, developing and reforming the Arts
Council as we would wish. There is no evidence that the royal charter has
caused the Arts Council's problems. I am concerned that a number of Assembly
Members are allowing this issue to override the real concerns about the Arts
Council and the need to review and reform it. All the problems associated
with the Arts Council can be overcome without going through a tortuous
process that would last many years. I am anxious to get on with reforming
the Arts Council without getting tied up in a legal wrangle with the Privy
Council: whether we like it or not, we cannot control it.
The Presiding Officer: I call the Right Honourable Ron Davies.
Ron Davies: How can the Minister presume to know the Privy Council's
attitude?
Jenny Randerson: I took soundings. [ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: 'Oh.']
Peter Rogers: Do you think that changes to the Arts Council's constitution
will bring any direct benefits to the people of north Wales?
Jenny Randerson: Changes to the way in which the Arts Council operates and
administers its finances will bring benefits to north Wales, particularly
as--;I am sure that you are aware, Peter--;there were five places on the
Arts Council that were not filled in the previous round of appointments,
specifically because of our concern that there were not enough applicants
from the north. We have had 76 applicants for five places and I am
told--;although I have not yet seen the applications--;that those applicants
are of a high calibre. We will have no trouble in filling those five
vacancies.
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