| Committee Scrutiny: “Funding for Culture Amongst the Lowest in Europe” |
Culture in the Senedd |
| Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport and International Relations Committee , Senedd , December 11, 2025 |
The title for the second item of the Committee's session on 19th November was:“Scrutiny of the Welsh Government's Draft Budget 2026-27: Evidence session with the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership.” Delyth Jewell was in the Chair. Heledd Fychan, Alun Davies and Gareth Davies were in attendance. In abridgement: Delyth Jewell: We're looking at funding for culture and sport. We as a committee have drawn attention to the fact that we are amongst the lowest in Europe when it comes to spending on those areas. There is a 2 per cent revenue uplift; do you think that that is sufficient to get us out of the situation that we are in? Jack Sargeant: To your point, Chair, we recognise the importance of the cultural and sporting sector. We recognise the challenges and opportunities that still remain in the sector. But this is a restated budget, as it was from this year's budget going into next year. The finance Secretary set out the reasons for that approach when he laid the budget. I think it's important, Chair, to just reflect on where we were. We heard quite clearly from the sector to this committee a few weeks ago, where the Amgueddfa Cymru leadership team said that we are in a very different place from where we were last year when we sat round this committee table. So, I think it's important to reflect on that as a position from a starting point, and then the reasons for the restated budget, as the finance Secretary has set out. I think that Amgueddfa Cymru used the opportunity to describe that position as 'fabulous' when they were last in this committee. Alun Davies: The committee's going to ask you a lot of detailed questions about various aspect of the portfolio and funding and budgets, but I want to start at the beginning, if that makes sense. You've said, and we all understand, that this is a standstill budget. Therefore, there's been a general, supposedly, inflation-linked increase across the board. I recognise that that's a contested decision, but I recognise what the decision is. But I want to take you back before that, because we've had a tussle with yourself and your predecessors about funding for the arts and sport in Wales. The Government's position, I presume, is that it does accept that Wales funds the arts, culture and sport less well than any other UK nation and less well than any other comparable nation across Europe. Is that the case? Jack Sargeant: I think, Chair, if you point to the committee table that the committee has used in a number of different ways, that table itself has caveats within that comparison. Is it a like-for-like comparison with where we spend our money? Is it including revenue? Is it including capital? Does it include sport? Does it include creative? Does it include all of those things for each nation? The Government is clear we want to fund, and continue to fund, our arts and sport sectors. The context of where we were last year compared to where we are this year, Chair, carries on. And this is a restated budget. This isn't the end of the process, Alun, is it? Alun Davies: My question wasn't about this year and last year; it's about the Government's approach and the Government's policy. My question was actually quite a straightforward question: does the Government accept the relative position of Wales? It's either 'yes' or 'no'. Jack Sargeant: We accept the position we're in, where we are funding our arts and sport sector. They had an increase in the budget last year, and they've had that increase restated this year. But again, this is not the end of the process, and this committee knows that better than others. Alun Davies: I accept all of that. But the fact that you don't say 'yes' or 'no' indicates to me that you do recognise the relative situation of Wales relative to other parts of the United Kingdom and relative to other parts of Europe. So, there's a recognition there that Wales is poorly funded for its arts, poorly funded for culture, poorly funded for sport. If that's the case, is there any decision being taken within Government that it wishes to address that relative position? Jack Sargeant: Let's take the capital position of sport and arts, where we've seen significant increases over the last decade. The Member has seen that in his own constituency—over £700,000 brought into Tredegar to increase activity in sport. We were there just last week in the latest event. So, I think it's fair to say that we have supported the sector. There are challenges, as we know, as we all understand, and the opportunities that we understand. But I just want to take you back to what was said in this committee a few weeks ago by the leadership of Amgueddfa Cymru, where they described their position as 'fabulous'. Jack Sargeant: We're in a different place to where we were a year ago, and they described that as 'fabulous'. I already said we agree that there are still challenges that remain and we want to work with the sector. I've never said that isn't the case, I'm just repeating what the committee has heard. I've listened to the evidence from Amgueddfa Cymru, where they said they would welcome increased capital funding in grant in aid, and we've done that as well in this draft budget. Alun Davies: I'm trying to establish the starting point for our discussions this morning. We understand the budget context and we understand the decisions that have been taken by the finance Minister and endorsed by the rest of the Government; we understand all of that. The committee understands the historical basis for this and we recognise the political reality of where the Welsh Government is at the moment. The committee understands all of that. My question to you is about the debate and the discussion that's taken place within Government, where the committee has a right to receive a more comprehensive understanding. Because the numbers are so stark, it's possible to argue this and argue that and try to make points about various rather minor second-order issues, but the overall context is clear for everybody to see, and I guess that's as clear for your officials as it is for us, and I presume your officials appreciate that. So, there has been no decision within Government to address the relative paucity in funding for Welsh culture, Welsh arts and Welsh sport, and there's been no decision taken to address that fundamental issue; am I correct? Jack Sargeant: The answer is that we don't just invest in culture and sport through the culture and sport portfolio. I think that's clear for everyone to see. We've seen other investments in the budget this year and in previous years from other portfolios, and the restated budget allows that to happen again in other portfolios—delivering against the priorities for culture, investing in sport and facilities in education settings and so on, investments from the energy department into areas like Amgueddfa Cymru. So, it's not a clear picture to say that all culture spend happens in the culture budget; it doesn't. It goes across portfolios. Again, there's an opportunity for a change in position between the draft and final budget, and this committee saw that last year in response to the committee. The Senedd itself, over the 25 years, has always acted in a progressive way when it comes to budgets, and I welcome those discussions taking place between all people around this table and in their respective political parties. I think it's an important step and I do welcome the approach taken already by members of this committee and others outside. Alun Davies: ...I'm not sure that that really answers the question. The fundamental question is that this portfolio has both a relative and an absolute paucity of spend within the Welsh Government's priorities, and that is clear from the numbers we have, which you haven't seriously challenged either now or at any time in the past. So, we're in this situation whereby the Welsh sector here is poorly funded compared with their colleagues across the border, poorly funded compared with their colleagues across Europe, and suffering the consequences of things like Brexit as well. So, there are lots of different issues facing your portfolio at the moment, and there's been no decision taken by Welsh Government to address those fundamentals. I'm concerned that in the Welsh Government there doesn't seem to be any sense of urgency about this crisis facing this defining part of our cultural life. Jack Sargeant: I take his point on revenue, but we have been in a better place, as has been said by others, from where we were last year to this year. Now, this is a journey, and we want to go beyond that in the future. This is an initial—. It's a draft budget, and there are opportunities for Members around this committee table and beyond to help shape that in the future. Heledd Fychan: So, you'd like to see an increase. You think there should be an increase in the final budget in these areas. Jack Sargeant I would always welcome more funding to the sector to carry on the opportunities that we can do today. I've never said that that's not to be the case. This puts us in a good position. It's a restated budget, of course. I'd like to see more, because of all of the things that we realise arts and sport can do. There's a real opportunity for people around this table, and beyond, to help shape that, and I think everyone understands that. Abridged, with thanks and acknowledgement, from the transcript which can be read in full at: https://record.senedd.wales/Committee/15415 [To be continued] |
Reviewed by: Adam Somerset |
This review has been read 176 times There are 31 other reviews of productions with this title in our database:
|
