| Unusual Revealing Reports from within Government |
A Political Diary |
| Lee Waters In Interview with Ministers & Advisers , Political Life of Wales , May 31, 2025 |
Lee Waters interviewed a range of those who are involved in different roles in the governing of Wales. He published them under the heading “Conversations In Cathays.” The result ran to 151 pages. Themes that ran throughout were that the Government lacked the capability to do what it wished and operated within a society of limited comment and scrutiny. Lee Waters: “So, when I talk to civil servants, one of the things that they are frustrated with is the numbers cap that’s been imposed on the Civil Service, primarily by Mark Drakeford.” Lee Waters: And then the media element of scrutiny, give me your impression of that. Dan Butler: ‘What media would that be?’ would be my short answer. If there are lots of people following the Welsh media, I certainly didn't meet them. I don't know whether it's something to do with people here not being as interested, or, you know, whether it is just poorly served by our media. But I mean, if you read the Welsh media, it's just, it's pretty unedifying. Lee Waters: So, in terms of the sources of scrutiny to sharpen performance, you said the media is weak, you said the parliament is weak, and you said the civil society is weak and naďve; Civil Service you've described as well as being pretty lame. Lee Waters: And some ministers don't, which I find quite staggering, but I don't think the system takes correspondence seriously as a source of … Dan Butler: Fully agree, it always felt to me like correspondence was dealt with slightly reluctantly as an institution. * * * * From the ministerial perspective: Kirsty Williams: There's very little time to really develop expertise in a particular subject. And a lot of the scrutiny is very much local, rather than strategic and system scrutiny. ...But I just think that scrutiny leads to better government, and I think scrutiny could be improved within the Senedd. There was very little in-depth knowledge around the media in terms of education, the one person that would have really worried education ministers gone past [Gareth Evans], left the Western Mail and went into academia himself. So there was nobody really with that in-depth background within the media around education. Then in civic society. You know, this is again the curse and the blessing of being a small nation. Many of the people that perhaps would speak out have a direct relationship with the government in some way, shape or form, and I think in some way, that stifles debate. And that's a real shame. That is a real shame, because ministers who are kept on their toes; ministers who fear falling foul of that kind of scrutiny, work really hard to avoid those pitfalls and really, really challenge. But I think developing that culture of scrutiny, that tradition; if you look to Westminster, you know that tradition of the committee chair, the power of the committees, and you know the very, very fine tradition of backbenchers who've been a thorn in their own government’s side, but have actually really, really contributed to the public discourse. * * * * On the ministerial role: Leslie Griffiths: I think the sheer volume of decisions. I mean, sometimes I go home and I used to think I can't decide what to have for tea because I've made 300 decisions today that were all really, really important - I'm exaggerating, but, you know, just that sheer volume of work, and that constant pressure. Your phone never stops, the emails never stop. You never could switch your phone off. Even when you're on holiday. Yes, and the fact that you have no life. So, you ask my family, they say I was miserable, and I never did anything apart from I had two weeks holiday the two years I was doing it. Sundays were literally signing letters that I had from other elected representatives. Now, some Health Ministers let other people do that. I feel very passionately if my name is at the bottom of that letter, I need to sign off. So, you would have to read the letter that was sent to you, you'd have to read the advice, and then you'd have to read the letter that you were sending back. So, I could have 80 letters on a Sunday, and I knew if I didn't do them on a Sunday, I wouldn't get time to do them the rest of the week. * * * * On structure: Lee Waters: Ministers are frustrated, but always told that staffing, and the internal organisation of the Welsh Government, are not a matter for ministers. There is this mysterious body, the Welsh Government Board, where the Whitehall equivalent is led by a minister and has the SPAD on it, in our system it is the Civil Service only and some external non-executives. The First Minister and the Permanent Secretary have a direct relationship where some of this challenge can take place, but it feels like a very diffuse system. From: Lee Waters' blog at: https://amanwy.blogspot.com/2025/ Y Pumed Llawr - The Fifth Floor is also interesting. https://amanwy.blogspot.com/2025/05/being-minister.html |
Reviewed by: Adam Somerset |
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